Atheism Javed Akhtar Debate.

some comments re this muhtaram's talk.

1. he says it was an implicit attack on Ahle Sunnat to show that the descendants of Imam Fazle Haq rahimahullah have degenerated into atheism. what about ismail dehlvi himself? he was a descendent of Shah Waliullah rahimahullah. devbandis themselves claim scholarly descent from Shah Waliullah and we say they have deviated from his legacy.

2. he's veering into devbandis own concepts regarding the Creator. while he's right, the debate itself was centered on just the presence and existence of the Creator. those debates are for us to tackle the devs at other times and places, but NOT in the backdrop of this debate where we will be accused of envy and crying sour grapes.

3. he's correct in what he says that it was a matter of image building where the moron kissed the atheist's hand and put his hand on his head for "blessings". this is fully compliant to the "adab" taught by contemporary Arab and Western "Sufis" like hanson, jifry, bin bayyah etc.

4. i don't know, i may be wrong, but i feel, unless you're an intel agency with wads of cash at your disposal, positing these kind of things as ad hoc, staged exercises and psyops are just a case of pacifying ourselves with conspiracy theories. their image clean up activities started with muhannad itself and are a part of their DNA. i cried about it on another thread.

i know a bunch of anecdotes where low level tablighis are extremely hospitable and cheerful with our tanatan Islami bhais in Arab/Turkish/Afghani Sunni mosques. three guys from DI sit at a masjid pillar to talk Faizane Sunnat, they start hovering around them like bees, "bhai, aap ko chai coffee dein?" calling on Sunni kids with 3imamas "aaiye hamare saath bhi baithiye", putting their innocent-sounding flyers on Quran courses and tajweed courses for kids in Sunni mosques etc.

in short, it's a part of their DNA to seize any opportunity to promote devbandiyat, be it to a local paanwala or to random kid on the street or to Arab ulama or to javed akhtar or to the rajya sabha or to narendra modi.

having no principles and moral compass, they will gladly dissolve into the mainstream media's portrayal of "Sunniism" and/or "tasawwuf" - the kind that is popularized by tahirul, ali jifry, hanson, sufi mk and so many others. as we all know, in the west, they gladly read salam, standing, with duff, on Arab/Turk organized Mawlids, participate in hadras, in fact today i even came across some of them celebrating "Urs" of ilyas kandhalwi with Habib Umar as a chief guest!

we just don't operate that way. period.

5. this sour grapes thing is touched upon by the speaker too and is also apparent to an extent in the videos posted in posts # 43 & 44. sorry but basking in past glories is NOT the need of the hour for Muslims or Sunnis. it's patently useless to point to the obvious regarding Sadrul Afazil or Abdul Aleem Siddiqui or anyone as a gotcha against devbandis. we are in the here and now and need to deal with the hindutwavadis acting with impunity against Islam; as well as the wahabis and shias and other heretics. we need a multi-dimensional strategy and just simple steps embedded into our daily and routine lives as Sunnis - at every level - common man, students of knowledge, ulama, kids, adults, men, women.

it doesn't matter how mediocre Shamail's presentation was and how mediocre of an atheist javed akhtar himself was. what matters was that shamail, seized the opportunity, showed up and swept the floor with javed.

as the americans say - 80% of life is showing up!

i've said it previously on this page - if at all this was a media-psyop against Islam/Sunnis, it was a controlled experiment from the hindutva brigade to see whatever they wanted to see.

6. he's right devbandis are the mu3tazila of our age.

 

1. Cosmology and Cosmological Arguments
2. Rethinking the Ontological Argument: a Neoclassical Theistic Response. By Daniel A. Dombrowski

Source: Is the Ontological Argument Worthless? Graham Oppy's Rejection

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So yes, while the Cosmological argument can shut-up a "cultural" atheist who is badly unread, it isn't a cake walk when your opponent is a practised polemicist. Craig et.al. have been fire-fighting complex and very sophisticated (or so they sound) arguments against KCA for decades.

 

There is no inherent problem in saying that Allah is “above the Throne bi-dhātihi.”

Some of the early Ash’arīs used this expression when responding to the Jahmiyyah and Mu’tazilah, whose denial of ‘uluw forced them to emphasize the exaltation and elevation of Allah.

However,…

— Ibn ‘Abdullāh al-Hāshimī (@hashimiyy_) December 31, 2025

 

Nadwi's wahabiyyat came out & people are now confused kay yay kiss tarah ka makhlooq hay.
Well, welcome to deobandiyyat I guess, where one son has thousands of fathers.

https://x.com/i/status/2006775004193763743

 

This is not an endorsement of the devbandis comments.

 

par-dadah - paternal grandfather - is not right.

 

Was this debate a staged exercise to build a new narrative for deoband, as a rational, modern school of thought?

 

https://www.youtube.com/live/wslEjmNhLds?si=ljthtvA3JMykf_CZ

These Sunni brothers frequently discuss topics relating to murtads, but I haven't had chance to listen to a significant portion of any video

 

If he and nadwis are half smart, they should just ask

Are you saying the gita and the vedas are not as important to you as the constitution?

It will be a perfect mental trap to get these clowns stuck between a rock and a hard place

Yes would mean they're as secular as congress. No would expose them as naked gobar munchers!

 

I have never seen anyone more stupider than a Hindu. When they forcing Hinduism upon the public and giving their religion priorities why cant islamic scholars openly speak about us following the shariah.

Like absolute 0 logic. No wonder why they getting zaleel everywhere. They bootlicking satantahu yet get treated like animals in Israel.

Gobarians got nothing better to do.

 

I was waiting when the hindutvawadis were gonna go after him... and they have started.

Dunno who this hindu mouthpiece shehzad poonawala is (name sounds bohri or ismaili)

 

Mufti Akhtar Husain Alimi mentions a 'debate' between Huzoor Sadrul Afazil (rahmatullah alayh) and a non-Muslim. He mentions other works of Hazrat (rahmatullah alayh), that might be pertinent to this topic.

 

Mufti shahzad Alam Misbahi thoughts on the debate

 

Yes but the youtube opportunists are just cashing in on the virality of the event to secure their own views and likes... like look at this rafidi trash can from Houston. his kufr has been routinely answered umpteen times by Sunnis in every day and age and language, that still doesn't prevent him from dancing naked and stealing a few quick likes from his shayateen followers

 

And to his credit, he's using his new found fame well. This gives him the chance to shine light on the Nadawatul Ulema and more broader, the Deobandis.

https://x.com/i/status/2004620840655356330

 

Just came across another french video with thousands of views explaining how this one debate brought about a revolution in India.

The number just jumped from "hundreds" of conversions to "thousands" of conversions now

 

So they translated this debate in Arabic & heavily promoted it on social media, to the point where it reached the Arab Salafis & they are Takfeering shamail Nadwi over his "Jahmi" beliefs and the Arab Sufis are jumping in to defend him.

5 pillars reports that "hundreds" of people converted to Islam due to this debate.

Viewership is reaching millions in number & it is trending on YouTube.

 

They would have to consider him a Muslim first, which some of them definitely do not do:

https://x.com/i/status/2003527781230215189

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DSnj7YHEz_a/

this is the reason for devbandis getting more fame, good promotion of their mediocre nay bad product. Sunnis are poor promoters of high quality products (metaphorically speaking)

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I remember when keller's ikt first came out, it went viral in no time before a lot of us even realized what just happened. our responses were not by people of keller's level of fame (at the time) in western audiences, and also late. I somehow wish brothers Abu Hasan and Asrar Rashid were as popular back then as they are now along with any other Sunnis who might have responded to keller.

On being late, it's not criticism, the thing is as Sunnis who have integrity and value truth and justice, we can't just throw anything out there like the devs. we have to ensure it is per the manhaj of Sunniyat. Our high quality products require a serious amount of sweat and blood.

I always praise and admire any shoddy school project with weird handwriting and drawings and out of whack presentations, coz I know that is the child's own hard work as opposed to the work of art projects where you know mommy and daddy did a meticulous job!

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this is a slightly separate case, not so much about a response as it is about getting out there and being involved in society at large

 

past analyses of dawkins and other atheism related posts:

https://sunniport.com/index.php?posts/54624

https://sunniport.com/index.php?posts/54625

https://sunniport.com/index.php?posts/54627

https://sunniport.com/index.php?posts/66438

https://sunniport.com/index.php?posts/39316


https://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/meaning-of-life.14760/#post-73399

https://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/quantum-chips.15957/#post-83670

https://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/the-problem-of-good.16279/#post-86950