Mufti Shahid Ali vs. Deobandis - Post Debate Notes, Observations, Comments

https://barelwism.wordpress.com/202...ismail-shahid-based-on-a-rumour-of-tawbah-no/

Zaleel losing it over ismail "not a devbandi" dehlvi! Tagging him to see how much help qadiani apostates took from his tafwiyatul iman!

 

Chor chori se jaye, herapheri se na jaye

 

the zaleel's seething, so badly that he's gone into manic depression, lol

It's now become hard to differentiate between the uncouth jahalat, the exemplary shamelessness, and the naked deception & lies of osman devbandi or zaleel

https://barelwism.wordpress.com/2025/11/21/heresies-of-ahmad-rida-khan-barelwi-1856-1921-ce/

 

Sorry if those NAP proceedings clips dont belong in this thread

 

Page 683 of archive.org reader

 

Page 656 of the archive.org file



Page 657:


Page 659 of the archive.org file

 

https://archive.org/details/NAProceedings1974/NA-Proceeding-1974/mode/1up



Page 471 of archive.org document:



Page 652 of the archive.org document -

 

i have reached 43 minutes - and the baboon that is named osman zindiq - lying shamelessly and making wild accusations. unfortunately, i have to say that this monkey is worse than zionists in his lies and wild accusations.

this is why i refuse to debate orally. all the lies need time and patience to dismantle. which we will do presently in sha'Allah.

laa Hawla wa laa quwwata illa billah.

 

with flying colours. their grand-guru shaytan would be proud.

updated analogy if zameel wishes to equate alahazrat to :

so awaam kay khayal mein toh laa ilaaha illa'Allah ka ba-yeen ma'ana hai kay uskay ilawah koyi ma'abud nahin, aur woh ek hi ma'abud hai

MAGAR

ahl e fahm par roshan hogaa kay ek honay mein ya apnay saath kisi aur kay na honay mein bi'z zaat kuch fazilat nahin...​

[al-iyadhu billah. this is a hypothetical statement ONLY TO ILLUSTRATE that zameel's analogy would be identical to nanotvi if he had said thus.]

---

the meaning of laa ilaaha illa'Allah according to awaam is: there is none worthy of worship [ma'abud] except Allah. however, the people of knowledge know that there is no superiority in being Alone or no other ma'bud being alongside Him.

[al-iyadhu billah. this is a hypothetical statement ONLY TO ILLUSTRATE that zameel's analogy would be identical to nanotvi if said thus.]​

look how shamelessly, he lopped off the quote - and yet these scoundrels accuse alahazrat and us of "distortions"

devbandio sharm tum ko magar nahin aati.

 

jazak Allah khayra Abu Hasan and and Hassan for catching out zaleel's sleight of hand

Ala Hazrat uses و - AND

zaleel translates it to WHILE - trying to imply a contrast as if they're two opposing propositions, rather than the intended meaning of the latter being an affirmation & enhancement on the former

he's a naked shaytan lying in broad daylight!...

screenshot from his own blog:



Full piece screenshotted in 2 parts

 

Crafty Zamil’s logic is in tatters

Nanotwi said, awam ka khayal is XYZ, “MAGAR” Ahl-i Fahm hold ABC - the magar (‘lākin’ in Arabic / ‘but’ in English) sets the two positions in opposition.

Alahazrat, on the other hand, states, inda al-āmmah is XYZ, “WA” inda al-khassah is ABC, “WA” inda al-akhass is DEF, “WA” inda al-muntahin is GHK.

He uses WA not LAKIN. This signifyies the distinct strata of understanding, none of which negate the other. This is why he concludes with “wa al-kullu haqq.”

So Nanotwi contrasts, and Alahazrat categorises; Zamil fails in logic, but passes in deception.

 

​

Isn't AlaHazrat merely echoing what several high-ranking sufiya kiram have written in their maktubat (or been quoted in their malfuzat)?

 

that baboon, osman was groping here and there, trying to act smart - this zindiq zameel proves that not only faith, but even common sense has left him in his blind worship of devbandi tawagheet.

anyway, kawwa khaa khaa kay this one is becoming a gadha. and since zameel zindiq does not understand arabic, let us explain what it means.

====
LEKIN or BUT is a word that is used for exclusion as in nanotvi's statement.

guzarish hai kay awwal ma'ana khatam al-nabiyyin ma'alum karna chahiye taa-kay fahm e jawaab mein kuch diqqat na ho.

so awaam kay khayal mein toh RasulAllah (sal'am) ka khaatam honaa ba-yeen ma'ana hai kay aap kaa zamanah, anbiyaa e saabiq kay zamanay kay ba'ad aur aap sab mein aakhri nabi hain

MAGAR

ahl e fahm par roshan hogaa kay taqaddum yaa ta'akkhur zamaani mein bi'z zaat kuch fazilat nahin...​

here he is specifically talking of the ACTUAL meaning of khatam, and labeling it as the "khayal of awaam".

and oh yeah, zameel zindiq zaleel forgot or is afraid of checking qasim nanotvi's own clarification that he insisted that - khatam as in "chronologically last" is not the TRUE meaning in hsi follow up work: tanwir al-nibras. that will be possible if the moron can understand terms like "haqiqi ma'ana" and "madlul e mutabiqi" and has the shame to acknowledge the truth.

---
compare this with what the zindiq quoted, which is reminiscent of the accursed zionists:




anyway, in the above quote:


whereas, alahazrat below is not saying that:

ONLY the awam think that the meaning of laa ilaaha illa'Allah - is that there is no God except Allah.​

he is not CONTRASTING the other saying but rather: (actual quote)

the meaning of laa ilaaha illa'Allah / there is not God except Allah
NEAR the general public (aamah NOT awaam) is that, there is none worthy of worship [ma'abud] except Allah
NEAR the khawas / the elite: there is none to be sought* [maqsud] except Allah
NEAR the akhass al-khawas / the creme de la creme: there is none we witness except Allah
NEAR those who have reached the summit [muntahin]: there is no existence** except Allah

*i.e. we should desire to please
** i.e. REAL existence and everything else, is His creation and their existence does not really matter. keep reading for reference.​

----
the difference between nanotvi's and alahazrat's statement is that the first one [i.e. nanotvi] downplays and even sounds condescending - apart from his other statements that "even if a new prophet comes even in his time or after his time, there will be no impact on khatimiyat/chronologically last"

whereas, the second statement merely states that there are levels of gnosis. yes, zameel's citing alahazrat would be appropriate only if alahazrat had said similar to nanotvi:

the meaning of laa ilaaha illa'Allah according to awaam is: there is none worthy of worship [ma'abud] except Allah. however, the people of knowledge know that there would be no impact on His tawhid, if there were to be found another ma'abud alongside Allah ta'ala. [al-iyadhu billah. this is a hypothetical statement ONLY TO ILLUSTRATE that zameel's analogy would be identical to nanotvi if said thus.]​

zameel do you not fear that your zandaqah will invite Divine Wrath that will transfigure you and your ilk into monkeys and swine? al-iyadhu billah, astaghfirullah. nas'alu Allah al-aafiyah.

----
but that was not the only crime of the lying deceiving, shameless devbandis.

zameel clean lopped of the quote, stripped the context and tried to fit it to suit his zandaqah.

the actual quote was like this:




alahazrat clarifies IMMEDIATELY - that

...all of these [definitions] are Haqq; and he basis of faith is on the first definition.
the basis, criterion [manaT or illah] of righteousness is the second definition
the culmination of striving on the path [suluk] is the third definition
and the essence of having arrived at the destination [malaku'l wusul] is the fourth

​

===
the context alahazrat mentions this is about the verse that speaks of five unseen things that "no one knows except Allah":

explanation of the meaning of "there is none existing except Allah"

i say: rather, there is no one who Knows [in reality and by Himself] except Allah. rather, there is no REAL* [haqiqi] existence except of Allah. and the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam has said: 'the truest phrase uttered by an arab is the line of labid:

indeed, everything other than Allah ta'ala is futile [baTil].​

*that is, our existence is ephemeral - we were non-existent, we exist and we shall be annihilated. this is true of everyone and everything except Allah ta'ala who has always existed without a beginning and will exist without an end. notice "haqiqi" is the opposite of "baTil". alahazrat is merely restating the hadith.​

====
zameel, eat crow.

 

only a hindu baniya from the hinterland of UP can have such thudd kilaas "logic"

the 2 statements are chalk and cheese, and the context is glaringly obvious!

Ahmad Raza or any other Sunni NEVER said that the laa ilaaha ilAllah means something ELSE to the elite. they only said the meaning and it's manifestations (tasawwuf pov) are further enhanced for the khawaas.

nanotwi the murtadd buffoon negated the original meaning of khatamiyyat in itself trying to act like the khawaas. this is a big problem with devbandis... they think they're super-khaas awliyaa and super intelligent intellectuals, when they're just wallowing in a pile of trash feeding with the crows!

for analogy -

Sunni statement is like saying:
math for kids is 2+2=4; math for professors is advanced differential equations (former is the foundation for the latter in every sense imaginable)

nanotwis statement is like saying:
math for kids is 2+2=4; math for advanced devbandi professors is 2+2=2 (latter is absolute negation of the former in the most moronic sense possible)

that, and it looks like he's been pained severely by Asrar Rashid, lol

---

anyone who wants to comment on zaleel's stuff, please grab screenshots.

 

Zaleel on Abd Al-Hayy Lucknowi -

https://barelwism.wordpress.com/202...n-zajr-al-nas-response-to-shahid-ali-barelwi/

——

here, in this other post just in the last few hours the jahil mutlaq displays his magnificent qiyas skills, trying to say Imam Ahmad Raza made similar comments to the qadiani enabler nanotwi



https://barelwism.wordpress.com/202...y-allah-is-worshipped-according-to-laypeople/

im speechless honestly. At least before I loved to hate the guy coz he at least displayed some level of nafsanic coherency, but now he’s transitioned into a lower caste andhbhakt zombie… it’s kinda like systematically demoting your own self from Tim Sebastian down to piers Morgan all the way down to arnab goswami! Pathetic.

 

@abu Hasan
At the end of the analysis and refutation, it would be useful to compile all the deobandi hogwash (including the latest clownery), rebuttals, evidences etc. in the form of a book. May be @Noori can further translate it into Urdu.

That would be the most apt way to "seal" this debate!

It would also make sense to include a chapter highlighting Nanotwi's contribution to the Qadiyani fitna.

 

I am moving all - non thread related posts to this thread.

those threads are actual refutations with documents - we are derailing our own threads. if anyone has observations or comments about the debate overall - and has nothing to add in terms of analysis etc, please post your views here. don't add in analysis threads - as they are meant to directly discuss and analyse debate points.

thanks. if you wish you can leave a link on the original thread "see my comments here".

 

The likes of Yasir and Haji Liaqat are fuming that the duo have let the cat out of the bag.