I'm not arguing against the fatwa (which I fully agree with). Neither am I suggesting that salaam be done with mic anyhow. What I'm arguing is that "wait a bit before you stand to recite" or "wait some minutes" is not workable in practice - because someone or other does/may continue praying long after the jamaat is over. Is salaam the only dispensable element or point of contention? What about wa'az before the jumuah jamaat? I have very commonly seen people go up to 1st saff (right under Imam's nose) and start praying while the wa'az is in progress. In one of the masajids, I frequently heard the Imam advising people not to pray in first few rows while he was lecturing since it distracted him. So he would advise such people to either pray in another room before sitting down with congregation or come early and finish their prayer before the lecture started. How long does salaam take anyway? 3-5 minutes mostly in my experience in UK mosques, and longer in subcontinent. Most local mosques restrict themselves to 3 verses of salaam. I doubt there is any masjid which starts salaam right after completion of farz; usually it is done 10-15 mins or so later to allow for everyone to have completed usual set of 4+2 sunnah and 2 nafl rakahs. Thing is that when people in regular attendance know that salaam is customarily done at a certain time slot after jumuah jaamat, why can't they exercise sense in waiting to start/continue their prayers? In general, there's too much indiscipline on the part of common people. It's about everyone being sensible and knowing the aadab of being in masjid. My point is that this (or similar) arrangement is a 2-way process, where both those who recite salaam and those who pray need to be mindful of where and when it should be done. There's no point in flagellating sunnis for doing customary salaam. As I pointed in the previous post, the primary purpose of masjid is prayer in congregation (or otherwise). Everything else (not just salaam) should take backseat. My point is mainly about what happens in practice. Real issue is aadab and discipline needed on part of everyone. --- May be it's time for sunni masajids to display salaam time slot publicly on regular notice board (these days electronic ones). Is that a workable solution? Wa'az at ww:ww Khutbah at xx:xx Jamaat at yy:yy Salaam at zz:zz
I don't see it as being difficult. Stop using the microphone and wait a bit before you stand to recite and do it away from people reading their prayers. I don't see why the sound needs to go through multiple halls if all the people who want to listen can just go to the place of reciting and whether they think the sound effect of the mic is better is tough luck to them. In my masjid, out of the 300 or so people who arrive for Friday prayer, only about 15 stay for salaam at the end anyway. If I'm praying in the lower prayer hall, why does the mic need to be on whilst they recite in the upper prayer hall? And if, hypothetically, it just wasn't possible because of space limitations or something or somehow multiple halls were full of people standing for salaam- then what about this fatwa re preventing people from reciting if people are still praying? If it's not allowed in that instance, and there's no workable solution in that particular masjid... Then yeah, I guess they couldn't recite (if my understanding based on this thread is correct). I don't see this as an issue really. If it can't be done, it can't be done. And if it is allowed in that instance or there's a difference of opinion, someone should point it out
Is the issue microphone or salaam? Or both? I'm not advocating the use of microphone (and I'm personally not a fan of it), but I can understand why it's used. One, it enhances the sound effect that reciters/listeners prefer (again, not my personal preference). Secondly, in larger congregations (or multiple halls) it's a necessity. What would you say about wa'az (or lecture) before the start of jumuah salah? Should Imam also stop delivering it (with/without mic) lest it disturbs those praying tahiyatul masjid or anything else? The reason I bring this up is that there's no perfect solution to all issues. Of course, obligatory/more essential acts take preference over lesser ones. But where does one draw the line to accommodate all acts (obligatory and mustahab)? Same issue would hold for any dhikr mehfil or meelad events or deeni majlis in masjid. Should these also be discontinued? Should one allocate a fixed time for salaam etc. so that it never disturbs salah? Only non-conflicting slot would be zawal time! Again, I must clarify that I'm not arguing that salaam and other acts be done on microphone with the purpose to disturb; but I find no alternative solution to be realistically workable.
In a lot of masajid, they recite into a microphone which makes no sense since anyone who stays back can hear it without one. Which indicates that this mas'alah isn't exactly on their radar in the first place. You could be praying on a completely different floor and you can still hear them
I don't think that would work even if you allowed for an hour's wait! Latecomers (or those staying late to carry supererogatory prayers etc.) continue and there's never a time when someone is not engaged in salah. Also those waiting for salaam can't continue to wait indefinitely for it to be performed until everyone is finished with salah/tilawat. I can say from observation that no matter how long you delay salaam, someone or other will always be performing salah in masjid. For most masajids in UK, salaam is only performed after Jumuah. I know that it's common in Indian masajids to read salaam after fajr too. When the main jamaat and follow-up rakahs have finished, there are 2 possible workable solutions: (i) salaam be performed in another room (away from the main prayer hall) or in another corner (if there's no alternative/extra space available); or (ii) the latecomers or late-hangers (I don't mean to use this in disparaging way) be informed that they should do so in another room/corner to avoid being disturbed. I'm not suggesting that they be pressured or shamed to move away; but if this is done through announcement before jamaat or through regular practice then there would be a shared understanding that there's space and time for both acts to be done.
Can't say anything to anybody as otherwise the imams, committee and other members of the public will just say you're salafi etc. The problem with our lot is that we treat mustahab acts as if they're obligatory and obligatory acts (such as tajweed) as if they're mustahab and then we more or less send any member of the community that has any interest in the religion to Albani and crew by way of next day tracked delivery. And then we wonder why our youth don't pray or attend classes etc and the non sunni crew has all the talent
To add to Sh Hassan qn, what about after every Fajr in most if not all Barelwi mosques, the imam and a couple of people line up like host family at the entrance of a wedding hall welcoming guests, and the entire congregation or most of it is greeted. I don’t have a problem with it as such, just find the practice strange, and can see how some people will feel peer pressure even if unintended.
Shaykh, could you kindly expound upon this. Do you hold that the customary Jumuʿah ṣalawāt ought not to be recited within the masjid, on the grounds that there will inevitably be individuals engaged in Quran recitation or Ṣalāh (or resting, as you mentioned)? Further, what about delivering speeches in the masjid with or without a mic system when such discourse may intrude upon those praying? What about naʿts?
https://www.ridawi.org/alahazrat-books-download/ https://www.ridawi.org/download-books-on-alahazrat/ https://www.ridawi.org/alahazrat-translations/
The books library of Dawat-e-Islami contains many booklets of different writers including Ahmed Raza khan Barelvi. He has written several books on various topics in Arabic, Persian and Urdu. https://www.dawateislami.net/bookslibrary/?mt=&lang=ur&filter=3&month=
Purchase Imam Ahmed Raza Khan R.A.s books translated into English at Books can be purchased from http://www.raza.org.za and http://www.madanipropagation.com and http://www.almukhtarbooks.com
if you can read urdu, then www.razanw.org is a priceless gem. if not, www.alahazrat.co.uk has quality english articles.
we have a whole section dedicated on this forum for that purpose. please feel free to browse and ask. -- this practice prevalent in the subcontinent was frowned upon by alahazrat. alahazrat insisted that it is not permissible to recite qur'an loudly in the masjid if it disturbs others who are praying or people who are sleeping (in the masjid like travelers etc.); then, how can you recite salam so loudly immediately after the friday prayer when many are still praying nawafil or reciting the qur'an? back home - it is on a loudspeaker that can be heard half a mile away! what you say is true - the sole criteria many 'sunnis' apply in our area is that a person's presence in the salam-after-friday-prayers and will easily label you wahabi if you leave. i am sorry if it sounds like a retort but we actually ask people to read about alahazrat before forming an opinion about him. we say: taste the nectar and then judge for yourself how sweet it is...
on the contrary, one of his fatwa explictly states that it is mubah and there is no harm in learning a language. he might have said something about 'angrezi ta'alim' meaning 'western education', but it has got nothing to do with english language per se. we cannot comment until we see the fatwa itself, if at all such a fatwa exists. --- as you have rightly pointed out, muslims in those days were less materialistic. getting an english education - which actually meant western education - was not at all necessary. moreover, just as it is today, muslims from the subcontinent who received an english/western education became snobbish and quite unislamic. some lucky ones survive but most succumb to the . not only that, they went furthermore and began to criticize islamic values and culture, left, right and center. some of the pathetic intellectual slaves begat insane ideas in their petty and feeble minds that western culture was superior; and attempted to 'modernize' islamic culture. the aligarh darwin was one of the leading chimps of this camp. ---- alahazrat himself says in some places that any science or knowledge is not inherently evil; it might be useless but it is not evil. it is the application of such science in evil ways that makes it evil. ---- alahazrat was not inclined towards teaching girls to write though he was not against educating them. he did not say that it was haram [to teach them to write] but he certainly said that it was disliked. and he was simply following countless other older traditional scholars. i am sorry for making the following generalization but my impression of people in our times is that their minds are paralyzed, rusted and dusty - except for a small minority who actually use their minds. and why do i have such a negative view? check:- they mindlessly repeat what they hear without questioning, without even bothering to make a quick check. - they are usually influenced by television/media and even if they deny it, they subconsciously make points they have ingested from the media. - logical thinking - or critical thinking is missing or severely diminished across the board. - an overwhelming majority of those i meet don't read books. [and that seems to be the experience of many others as we see articles on the net]. i interview candidates and very very few of them say that they read books. and those who say they do, also are cursory namesake readers. - even religious people don't read books. people seem to miss the fact that reading is a different skill altogether; it is this crucial tool which actually enables you for an education; and that you can get more focused and quality information when you read than when you watch/hear. moreover, you use your mind when you read in contrast to watching television with a numbed mind. - follow the crowd mindlessly. as RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam foretold: 'you will follow people of the book span by span and hand by hand; you will emulate them even if one of them goes inside a lizard hole.' check the valentines and mothers and fathers days; or the comments by various 'liberals' - who claim liberation from islam but woefully enslaved by western culture... - even schools which are meant to teach children to read are becoming simply useless. in our days, we had a compulsory library-period in which the whole class was marched to the library and spend a couple of hours there. kids these days spend their time on the net and are oh-so knowledgeable about the coolest gadgets, but are blanks when it comes to reading. it is the fault of parents-teachers who do not insist enough on reading. the reason for my rant above is because people pass judgement hastily without considering various contexts - social, chronological, cultural, political etc. coming back to alahazrat's fatwa on teaching girls to write, it was at a time when it was not a necessity. in those days, literacy among men was also minimal. and those who could read and write were a privileged class. hence the fatwa. ---- even iqbal, the modernists love to quote said:laRkiyaN paRh rahi haiN angrezi dhunD li qawm ne falah ki raah ab drama dikhaye ga kya scene pardah uThney ki muntazar hai nigah girls are now being taught english (western education) the community (of muslims) has finally found the path to success what is the next scene to be shown in this drama? we await the curtain to rise. --- it is not that women shouldn't be taught to read and write in our times, but they need not copy men in everything - wearing pantsuits and jostling in the crowd is not our idea of equality. i don't know why some people think that raising kids and looking after the family is an inferior task. i think it is an honorable charge. and how does merely earning a wage make them any better - indeed, those women who have a need can work. alahazrat himself in one of his fatwa states that it is permissible for women to work so as to supplement their husband's income or any legitimate reason if a few simple conditions are observed: - that they should not be alone with another man [khalwah] at any time of their occupation. - that they should commute during times when there is traffic; that is, when there are people on the street [this is a safeguard against mugging and rape] - that they are covered as much as the shariah requires them to cover. and this is a hundred year old fatwa! ---- indeed, in earlier times families were stronger, the community was fairly cohesive and people had a sense of social responsibility unlike the anarchy and abject selfishness in our times. divorced women, destitute women, old maids, orphans were somehow supported; though injustice was not entirely absent. however, in today's world, even that semblance of 'caring for your neighbor' has disappeared. divorce has become common and suddenly families with aged/retired parents are left with divorced daughters and their children. women are forced to go out to work to feed their families or work for a decent living. many young males are aping other young men in the west who simply live away from their parents as soon as they are old enough leaving parents to fend for themselves. all you needed was roti, kapda aur makan - food, clothing and shelter. but today, you need dozens of other things and you have to pay for utilities; medical bills, education, transport...[...er..telephone, internet]... ---- we demand 'female doctors' for our women who observe hijab; and where will we get these female nurses and doctors if our women do not study [or get an 'english education' if you will] and become doctors and nurses? there is a principle in fiqh that says: 'a mufti who does not recognize the challenges of his age is an ignoramus' [literally: a mufti who does not know his times is an ignoramus]. times have changed and so we have to adapt to them within the framework of religion and madh'hab. it is extremely unjust and foolish to measure the fatawa of our elders from an older time to compare it with problems in our times. Allah ta'ala knows best.
Salamun 'Alaykum My greatest problem that i do not have any reading materials on the Imam you love and respect so dearly. I do have a very breif biography, and a fiqh book containing selected fatawaa.Thats it though. These are the only materials that i have found available to me. What i am interested in is knowing his works on Aqidah. and if somebody has time to translate a short summary, a chapter, then that would be good for me. If there are texts in 'Arabic then feel free to refer me to them, and i will seek them and read them inshaAllah. As for disrespecting the Imam that has never been my intention. I have learnt under teachers that have a direct chain leading back to him, and have learnt a few on his fatawaa on a few issues via them. His fatawaa about English, has to be understood with the context and the surroundings at his given time where India was being colianised by the Brittish. A lot of theological debates used to happen, and just maybe the blameworthiness of learning English to get involved with Khusumaat was the context. I cannot help it if later scholars from indo-pak have done tahrif concerning the fatawaa and used it against Jusitce Karam Shah when he introduced the learning of English into the learning sylabus. This misconception that it is not allowed to dabble in English has hindered Ahmad Raza Khan's works from being translated. Therefore, i cannot be blamed if i do not know enough to accept him as a valid scholar, nor should i be forced too emotionally. One expierence i had is that i was labelled a Wahaabi for not reciting his poetry after Jum'ah. This is amongst many other things that i have expierenced growing up in Islam amongst the indo-pak community. If i seem to have any bad opinion, please overlook, it is just that i am finding it difficult to in so many words "buy the car! no test drives, just buy it!" We should remeber there is no compulsion in religion, however there is nothing wrong with building an understanding.
